Random EP thoughts

[wowie]

sorta xposted from VFB (I keep adding to this post as the mood strikes):

The opening credits were very stark. No grandiose sweeping credits like some movies have.

Howard Shore's score was very good, and I liked the moments where it was virtually not there. The HoV soundtrack had too many moments that seemed to LotR'ish to me. Not in this film.

Nikolai was only called Nikolai by name by the policeman in the hospital. No one else?

Very very dark feel to the entire movie. Not really any light moments like HoV. I did have a HoV deja vu moment with Tom Nikolai all beat up in the hospital room, and Edie Anna sitting in there with him. Edie realized there was much more to her husband than she knew, and the realization made her sick; Anna realized Nikolai wasn't what he seemed, but she relaxed. No HoV bathroom for her to go toss her cookies in; it wasn't necessary. :)

Edinburgggg (hard G). That made me laugh especially since I've had lessons on how to pronounce that name. LOL

I've seen a lot of clips from the movie and I think I was a bit distracted thinking where does this bit fit in, where does that fit in. I'm expecting to view this with stargazer60 soon and I will be able to see the film as one piece of work instead of contemplating these snippets on a second viewing.

I really think the love handles were fake blood and not so much 'handles'. I found myself wincing during those scenes. Maybe I will pay more attention to nekkid Viggo the second time around?

Interesting to contemplate a French guy doing a Russian / English accent and an American doing the same. I'm very curious to hear what the Russian girl at work says about the accents in the film. She says most Russian characters in films have over the top accents. Indeed, I just read a bit of a review that terribly disses Gary Oldman's Russian accent in Air Force One (ok, so maybe the accent wasn't so good, but he does villains oh so well. But I digress...) but Viggo got an excellent rating for his Russian accent.

Armin Mueller-Stahl was *fantastic*. Tender with his grand daughters, with his touch with the violin, regarding the 100 year old's bday party. And yet so cruel to his son. I thought his physical abuse of Kirill was harder to watch (more personal) than the violence to the characters we knew nothing about (although the knife in the eye thing had me wincing for sure).

Knives vs guns are so much more personal in these violent acts IMO.

Whew.

I think I like this better than HoV. Much more action. Similar to American Yakuza, but you don't realize you have a 'double agent' until the end.


Not sure I'm done (ok, I wasn't)...

Vincent Cassel did a fine job with a rather simpering whiney character who only had the bit of power he did because of daddy. There was an older guy, probably 60'ish behind me in the theater, that really enjoyed Kirill judging by his muttering and laughing when Kirill was at his wussiest (is that a word?). This was the first show of the afternoon and the theater wasn't full at all. The humor in the film is a bit subtle, and easy to miss because of the thick accents of the characters. I found myself laughing quietly a couple of times and wondered if anyone else thought those bits funny too.

I wonder if non English speakers had a difficult time understanding English masked by the Russian accents?

Nikolai and the worry beads at the end had me wondering. Did he feel boxed in, struggling to reconcile the 'tough' we saw at the beginning with the undercover guy we got to know by the end of the film? And what was his background? Was he recruited while in prison and had a deal cut? How long had he been working for Semyon as 'just a driver'? Questions that will never be answered (but maybe touched upon in a fanfic?). The best way to leave people *thinking*.

Comments

[stargazer60.livejournal.com]

Okay...I cheated and went to see it tonight....but am eager for a 2nd viewing because I'm sure there's a lot I missed...especialy some of the dialogue. I admit sometimes I had trouble understanding what Viggo was saying. At least there was subtitles for some of the dialogue!!!

I loved the music in this film, especially the violin solos...

I don't even know what else to say...guess I need to digest it s

[wwowie.livejournal.com]

It was more Viggo I had trouble understanding than anyone else. Does that mean he was more Russian? :)

I felt the same way when I first came home. Had no clue where to start.

[sajazz.livejournal.com]

I agree with alot of what you said though I figured no one called him by his first name because they wanted to show the "distance" between him and the family who were born to get those "stars".

You know, everyone kept asking me about the naked scene but to be honest, I wasn't paying much attention, I was too busy cringing at poor Nikolai being beaten. I think a second viewing I might notice more.

Armin Mueller-Stahl is amazing actor, I've seen him in other things, I'm afraid I haven't seen Vincent Cassel in much but he reminds me of Orlando Bloom groveling in Troy. Remember that?

[wwowie.livejournal.com]

Oh that makes sense... he was a nobody. Why would anybody care what his name was.

Kirrill was very smiliar to Orlando's wimp!

[aflon.livejournal.com]

It's a bit like watching The Usual Suspects in that the first time you see it, you see it one way, then when you know the whole story, you go back, watch it again and it changes. I love films like that.

Now you need to hunt down a copy of Brotherhood of the Wolf and watch Vincent Cassel being really creepy and scary in that.

[wwowie.livejournal.com]

Brotherhood of the Wolf

Done!

I can't wait for the DVD. :)

[itsmepeace.livejournal.com]

you have to see that movie, it is amazing, and excellent acting!

[wwowie.livejournal.com]

I just noticed the availability says coming soon... it should've long come if it was out in 2001!

[meridon.livejournal.com]

wowie...you have been to see it already??? I have another month at least to make up my mind..... so I'm not saying lucky girl- except for the fact you lot in the US get to see most things first even films made in the UK...damn!!!

[wwowie.livejournal.com]

Yeppers... yesterday! No bones about it, you need to go. :)

[pusspower.livejournal.com]

Liked reading your take. I too noticed that Nikolai's name was rarely used, and I agree with the poster who said that is was a distancing thing. I thought Viggo's accent was stronger than Vincent's. There are so many dialects in Russia, but Viggo sounds exactly like one of the many Russian doctors at work. I really want to ask this doctor what part of Russia he is from to see if it matches Nikolai's past, but we do not have a chatty relationship.

There was a lot of laughter during the earlier part of the film at the screening I went to. People were laughing at the subtle jokes, but don't forget these were DC geeks.

Lots of unanswered questions. Want to see the film again, but doubt I will get a chance until the DVD release. :(

[wwowie.livejournal.com]

I need to see it again with an audience that gets the humor. :)

Let's see... it'll probably be within six months, yes? Can you wait that long?

[pusspower.livejournal.com]

What choice do I have, except perhaps internet pirating? ;)

[wwowie.livejournal.com]

Ahoy, mate!

Always an option. ;)

[vigwig.livejournal.com]

Saw it tonight (posted thoughts on my lj w/ spoilers). I have mixed feelings. I loved Armin Mueller-Stahl work, everyone acted well. But the film didn't hit me in the gut they way HoV did at the end. I'll probably see it again though. I would have liked more stuff on the Russian mafia and the sex trade worldwide and $$$ it brings. It's a huge issue.

I thought Vig's Russian accent was fine but what do I know.

[wwowie.livejournal.com]

the sex trade worldwide

Other directors might focus on the morality involved there, but not DC! He sort of glosses over it.

[urgayleswoman.livejournal.com]

I got the same feeling about the music. I recognized it immediately as Shore but this time it was all its own. No LOTR undertones in the music at all. In HoV it really sounded very similar to the point of being distracting in some parts. At least for me. I guess if a person had not seen the LOTR movies as many times as I have (and probably most people on your flist) they wouldn't have noticed anything similar w/ the music.

I'm glad you got to see it.

Fanfic would be a good idea but my preference is a SEQUEL!!

[wwowie.livejournal.com]

my preference is a SEQUEL

That would be fascinating, and even though I've read of the possibilities, I can't see DC doing that.

[redminerva17.livejournal.com]

I've seen EP four times now, and love it. I thought Viggo did a magnificent job, and the rest of the cast was excellent as well.

About the use of Nikolai's name -- I am not certain, but I believe that Kirill used a diminutive of Nikolai, or perhaps a familiar nickname for him.

I love that Cronenberg did not paint anyone all in shades of black (except maybe for the Chechens in the bathhouse!) -- Semyon loved his grandchildren, loved music, cared for his guests respectfully, and honored his fellow countrymen -- and kicked his son, tortured him emotionally, and wanted his granddaughter killed. Kirill was a drunkard, weak, cowardly, violent, callous, and not very bright. But he wanted to be loved, and clearly treated his cousins with great kindness and patience, and wept over the baby who was his half-sister.

Even the irascible Uncle Stepan had his good points; he defended Anna from the Vory thug (uh, Nikolai), which was either a very brave and defiant act, or a very stupid one! And he did eventually translate the diary and try to keep his family as safe as possible.

Let's face it; Nikolai at the end of the film might be in charge, or at least have some control over Kirill, but he's in deep shit anyway. How is an undercover agent, who is evidently not quite as ruthless as he seems, going to pass as the leader of the Vory in London? How is he going to bring them down, or at least damage their operations, without being found out, and without having to do much worse things than he had been doing....

My heart went out to Nikolai at the end -- he was a true hero, giving up a "way out" that was offered by his bosses and electing to go back into the mob and continue his work. He must have endured something truly horrific to feel such commitment under the circumstances. Poor man. I hope he gets out of his self-imposed prison and gets to rnjoy life at some point, but it doesn't seem too likely....

Well, DC and Viggo have hinted that they might possibly entertain the notion of a sequel (though this would be a real shocker for Cronenberg), but I think fanfic resolutions might be more likely to occur. I read one awhile back for HoV that suited me very well.... ;-)

Geez, Wowie -- My original response was so long I wasn't allowed to post it. This is a greatly shortened version.... I just can't say enough about this film!

[wwowie.livejournal.com]

Ya should've posted in two parts.

I loved the complexity of the characters. Actually Anna was the one that was fleshed out the least IMO. I think Semyon could've killed the child, even if it was his own daughter unlike Kirill who he sent to do the job but couldn't. Kirill had a heart at least.

I suspect if there is a sequel, and it involved Nikolai, he would have to end up dead at the end of it. I can't see it happening, though. Better to leave it to the minds of the fans to contemplate what's happened.